[chimerax-users] VR Support

Tue Mar 23 23:09:18 PDT 2021

Thanks for the additional info.

By the way, does ChimeraX VR work under Linux, or just Windows? 

Cheers,
Gökhan 

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On 24 Mar 2021, 11:19 am, at 11:19 am, Tom Goddard <goddard at sonic.net> wrote:
>Hi Gökhan,
>
>Your Nvidia RTX 3090 should give the best performance possible with
>current GPUs.  There was a shortage of high-end graphics card in 2020
>and supply continues to far outpace demand with popular cards priced 2
>to 3 times their suggested retail price.  For instance your RTX 3090
>has a suggested price of $1500 but currently is priced over $3000. 
>This may not improve until 2022 according to news reports.  This may be
>the biggest problem in getting a new molecular visualization computer
>setup for VR.
>
>	https://www.theverge.com/2021/3/23/22345891/nvidia-amd-rtx-gpus-price-scalpers-ebay-graphics-cards
><https://www.theverge.com/2021/3/23/22345891/nvidia-amd-rtx-gpus-price-scalpers-ebay-graphics-cards>
>
>I have not tried the HP Reverb G2 virtual reality headset.  I know
>people were excited about the 2160 by 2160 pixels per eye resolution --
>for comparison a Valve Index headset has 1440 by 1600 pixels.  But
>reports said the hand-controller tracking with the Reverb G2 was below
>current VR standards.  ChimeraX and any SteamVR application will work
>with any hand controllers.  I have used ChimeraX VR with other Windows
>Mixed Reality controllers with a Samsung Odyssey headset with no
>problems.  I've also used it with various other controllers with no
>problem: Vive Pro, Vive, Oculus Rift S, Oculus Rift, Oculus Quest. 
>ChimeraX won't take advantage of the many extra inputs on Valve Index
>hand controllers.
>
>Nanome is a VR molecular visualization application funded by venture
>capital -- so they of course will need to charge plenty of money once
>that VC money runs out.  I expect they will mostly be aiming their
>features at pharmaceutical company needs.  I don't know if Nanome has
>any atomic model refinement capabilities.
>
>    Tom
>
>
>
>> On Mar 23, 2021, at 12:11 AM, <tolung.bio at gmail.com>
><tolung.bio at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Tom,
>>  
>> Thanks for the prompt response.
>>  
>> My responses are below.
>>  
>> Cheers,
>>  
>> Gökhan
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> From: Tom Goddard <goddard at sonic.net <mailto:goddard at sonic.net>> 
>> Sent: Tuesday, 23 March 2021 5:49 PM
>> To: tolung.bio at gmail.com <mailto:tolung.bio at gmail.com>
>> Cc: Tristan Croll <tic20 at cam.ac.uk <mailto:tic20 at cam.ac.uk>>;
>ChimeraX Users Help <chimerax-users at cgl.ucsf.edu
><mailto:chimerax-users at cgl.ucsf.edu>>; Simon Brown <simonb at uow.edu.au
><mailto:simonb at uow.edu.au>>; James Bouwer <jbouwer at uow.edu.au
><mailto:jbouwer at uow.edu.au>>
>> Subject: Re: [chimerax-users] VR Support
>>  
>> Hi Gökhan,
>>  
>>   ISOLDE works in VR in a minimal way -- you can tug on atoms. 
>Here's a little video showing that in ChimeraX 1.1.
>>  
>>                
>https://www.rbvi.ucsf.edu/chimerax/data/isolde-vr-mar2021/isolde_vr.mp4
><https://www.rbvi.ucsf.edu/chimerax/data/isolde-vr-mar2021/isolde_vr.mp4>
>>  
>> I turned off depth cue and clipping with commands "light depthcue
>off" and "clip off" otherwise it clips to a slab which keeps moving as
>I move my head.  I click a VR button on the ISOLDE panel tug atoms
>mouse mode icon to assign the VR button.  I wouldn't say this makes
>ISOLDE usable in VR.  For instance I don't have a way to move the
>roaming contour mesh region which normally stays in the middle of the
>screen.  But it is enough to play around a bit.  I was using a GTX 1080
>Ti graphics card.  Both the VR and ISOLDE molecular dynamics are
>running on the graphics card so this puts heavy demand on the card. 
>For simulating just a region around a residue it was reasonably smooth.
>>  
>> Thanks for the tips to get it to work with ISOLDE. I have a 3090 to
>play with (which recently replaced my trusty 1080) that should have
>significantly better performance than the 1080 Ti. Let’s see how it
>goes…
>>  
>> I would like to make ISOLDE work well in VR.  I think it is the
>perfect VR application where you really benefit from the best 3D
>perception possible and the 6-degree-of-freedom hand controllers for
>moving atoms around is much better suited than a mouse.
>>  
>> ABSOLUTELY, and I cannot wait for that day that I’ve been waiting for
>since I started working on structures, to come…
>>  
>> VR resolution has not been a major issue for use in molecular
>visualization.  We have been using Vive Pro headsets that have adequate
>resolution for a few years now.  A Valve Index headset is probably the
>best choice for molecular visualization right now.  People also use
>Quest 2 with link cable.
>>  
>> I have an HP Reverb G2 that recently replated my original HTC Vive. I
>am quite disappointed with it so far, and was wondering whether I
>should’ve gone for an Index. However, Index is not sold in Australia
>(and therefore would have required having one shipped from the US,
>which means no warranty here and expensive shipping). That was one of
>the reasons for going for the G2, and I have already used that
>warranty, since the first unit they sent died after minutes of first
>use!
>>  
>> Do you think ChimeraX+ISOLDE should work with the WMR controllers
>that come with the G2, or is the current code specific to the Vive
>controllers?
>>  
>>   The big problem is it would take many developer years of effort to
>have decent user interfaces in VR.  The furthest along on this for
>molecular visualization is Nanome -- you should check out their
>molecular VR.  We continued to develop ChimeraX VR including
>multi-person VR.
>>  
>> I have used Nanome’s one of the earliest versions, but it looks like
>they’re locking more and more of its features for free users based on
>my most recent try. ☹ Does it work as well as ChimeraX+ISOLDE in
>refining models?
>>  
>>                 Tom
>>  
>>  
>> 
>> 
>>> On Mar 22, 2021, at 9:18 PM, <tolung.bio at gmail.com
><mailto:tolung.bio at gmail.com>> <tolung.bio at gmail.com
><mailto:tolung.bio at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>  
>>> Hello Tristan and the Chimera team,
>>>  
>>> I have been using ChimeraX in VR: fantastic!
>>>  
>>> However, ISOLDE was not working in VR, unfortunately.
>>>  
>>> Is there a fix/workaround currently available to get ISOLDE running
>in VR?
>>>  
>>> Is there ongoing work on making ISOLDE VR compatible?
>>>  
>>> Also: 1) are there any advantages of using a Quadro card over a
>consumer-line card for ChimeraX VR? and 2) is there a recommended
>minimum system spec for getting high-enough frame rates in VR with
>large models? We are planning to put together a new system soon for
>molecular visualization and modelling, hence the questions.
>>>  
>>> Now that there are VR headsets with high-enough resolution (such as
>the HP Reverb G2) that allow reading smaller text and finer details in
>VR, I am hoping that the molecular visualization and modelling software
>will start providing built-in easy-to-use support for these devices. I
>applaud ChimeraX team for leading in this space (no pun intended 😊).
>>>  
>>> Best,
>>>  
>>> Gökhan
>>>  
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> https://www.rbvi.ucsf.edu/mailman/listinfo/chimerax-users
><https://www.rbvi.ucsf.edu/mailman/listinfo/chimerax-users>
>>  
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